Rob:  This past week, we marked the fortieth anniversary of the death of Martin Luther King, Jr.  In the decades since his assassination, our country has changed greatly.  Yet many believe the message of equality, King preached, is a dream yet unfulfilled.  Joining me is Chaz Kyser, author and visiting scholar from Langston University.
Chaz:  Thank you, Rob.  Well, unfortunately, all we can really do is speculate as to whether Dr. King would be pleased with how far we have come as a country.  However, I did discuss the issue with an Oklahoman who has studied King, his legacy, and his dream.
Chaz Kyser:  As a teacher and a Chaplin, Dr. Eric Anthony Joseph has a unique appreciation for the work of Dr. Martin Luther King.
Dr. Eric Anthony Joseph:  We have similar backgrounds, being ministers, as well as trying to be taken as academicians too, as scholars.  And a lot of people don’t look at Martin as a scholar, which he was.  And he was also a theologian, so he was balancing two worlds.  And when I was growing up, I said, I want to do two as well.
Chaz:  Joseph’s doctorial dissertation focuses on the youth movement of the 1960’s, and Martin Luther King’s involvement in it.  Through his study of King’s life, he learned things that some might find surprising.
Dr. Joseph:  He had insecurities.  Some of his insecurities were that he didn’t think that he could lead this movement.  He was 25 years old.  People fail to realize his youth.  The boy was born in 1929.
Chaz:  Yet from early on, King demonstrated skills that proved vital in the battle for civil rights.
Dr. Joseph:  Martin was an intellect, photographic memory, a scholar. He graduated and got his PhD when he was in his early 20’s.  As a matter of fact, Coretta Scott King was older than Martin, because he was finishing up his PhD when he was talking to Coretta, who was still working on her undergrad degree, and she was educated. And Martin just had a keen mind.
Chaz:  Joseph believes that if King were alive today, he would have mixed feelings about the various social and economic issues still affecting Americans.
Dr. Joseph:  It’s almost like the 60’s now.  Cosmetically we have changed in that more people are in the middle class, but still, we have more people going into the lower class, and the middle class is shifting.  So Martin would look at that, and he wouldn’t say that it would just be politics that would do anything about that or to fix the problem.  This is a man’s inhumanness to man problem.
Chaz:  King fought hard so that African Americans could enjoy the same privileges as their white counterparts.  Yet, Dr. Joseph believes if King were alive today, he would greet black America’s accomplishments with joy and a bit of bewilderment.
Dr. Joseph:  Martin would be excited with the new African American middle class.  He would be excited about that, so it’s a two-fold answer.  Yes, on that part, and then no on the part of we still have more to do.
Chaz:  Joseph says there are many things that Dr. King might be saddened about, but he would likely be quite happy about the possibility of having a black man as the next president of the United States.
Dr. Joseph:  He would roll over in his grave, hallelujah, but on the same sense, you know we still, like you talked about earlier, we still have poverty.  I’m happy on the one cent that a brother’s doing something.  That this man, an American citizen is doing something, they’re living the dream that he talked about.  Although Barack takes the dream out and puts hope there, it’s the same message that Martin preached.  So I think Martin, overall, would be excited, but still would say, there’s more work for us to do, and here are the things that you can do, and matter of fact, when we swear in our president, January of 2009, Martin would be waiting for them the next day.  After you have your ball, and you sleep in late and everybody partying and dancing; the next day, he would be waiting for you at the White House.  Okay, there’s Martin, Reverend Martin, Dr. Martin Luther King out there waiting in the oval, he’s waiting for you in the oval office, ‘cause he has a list of things that he wants you to look at.  And it’s amazing that, that same list, Chaz, would look like the list from the 60’s, of Martin Luther King.
Dr. King:  When we allow freedom ring.  When we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God’s children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old negro spiritual, free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, we are free at last.
Announcer:  To hear more of our interview with Dr. Joseph, just go to our web site at OkHorizon.com and click on value added.
Rob:  Well, certainly a great man who definitely changed this country for the better.  But, I do want to ask you though, you have written a book about how black women can succeed in the workplace.  In doing the research for that book, what did you find?
Chaz:  Well, unfortunately I found that African Americans still lack a level playing field, and what I would consider, what many would consider, full equality.  There are many examples of this.  I think the clearest example though right now is the wage gap that exists between black American and white Americans.   I found that black men make about seventy-five cents for every dollar that the average white man makes, and black women earn about sixty-eight cents, which I consider just paltry compared to the average a typical white man makes.  And this is when they have the same qualifications, same job titles, same responsibilities.
Rob:  Well those numbers are certainly startling, but you also told me something before this show about a study done in Milwaukee.
Chaz:  Oh yeah!  The study in Milwaukee just blew me away.  The study found that, oh God, it was in 2003 which is kind of long ago, but I think it still rings, it’s still kind of scary; that whites with a criminal record were more likely to be called back for job interviews than blacks without a criminal record.  I think what the overall message is that, you know, the last person they’re going to hire is someone of African descent.
Rob:  Hmm.  I don’t know really what to say about that, but I do know, if I could put myself in a black person’s shoes going into the workforce, that must be hard to face.
Chaz:  Well, I think it’s very disheartening.  I mean, stats like that are always disheartening.  But, as I tell my students, there is a bigger picture.  I mean, you see plenty of successful Americans.  Just look at Oprah Winfrey.  Just look at Barack Obama who may be the next president of the United States.  They had to overcome some of the things like that.  When you look at America, the workforce is much more diverse, and there’s more opportunities than ever before for black Americans and minorities in general.  So, I’m hopeful, and I think students should be hopeful in general.
Rob:  So while there’s still struggles, there are also plenty of triumphs.
Chaz:  And there’s always hope.  Yes!
Rob:  Absolutely.  Chaz Kyser, visiting scholar for Oklahoma HORIZON and author of, EMBRACING THE REAL WORLD: THE BLACK WOMAN'S GUIDE TO LIFE AFTER COLLEGE.